Community Page
-
Subscribe -
Community
-
Top Commenters
-
Popular Threads
-
Recent Comments
- As a member of the D table crowd, I believe you are mistaken. Thinking that you chose to be smart instead of popular is just wrong. Many members of my D table were not smart, and many members of...
- I don't know why but i enjoy dying my hair bright colors. I'm a natural blond( built i'm not a bimbo but i have my moments lol) just for the fun of it I'm going to type some of my...
- Well, that was a good read. It's really too bad that i don't fit into the Nerds group or the Popular group, or any other group for that matter, I'm just neutral. Also the fact that I...
- hi, my name is virginia, im in year 9 this year. i used to be one of the 'unpopular' kids at my school, i was bullied all the time, its a horrible thing to expierience...all i wanted to do...
- i hate myspace and bebo. a couple of years ago 9 actually liked them but now i cant stand them.does anyone know how to get rid of accounts on these websites? Heres my email this is my work related...
Jump to original thread »
No excerpt available. Jump to website »
2 weeks ago
having been a nerd for all my school time I've seen everything you described here but I could never explain the why. Meanwhile I've learned a lot about social psychology and educational science but I've never managed to meet someone who could rationalize to me the phenomenon of nerds in such a complete way you did in this essay. Thank you so much! I really adore you for it. Please allow me to quote extracts from it on any ocasion!
Lots of Love, Miriam from Germany
P.S. Be reassured that nerds are not only an american phenomenon. They exist in Europe too.
5 months ago
5 months ago
4 months ago
smarter they 1st wanna kill you(if the right given) 2nd they wanna get read of you 3rdif they cant do the above mentioned and you continue to read they're thoughts they evade you or talk shit behind your back
don't want to be your friend for sure.
5 months ago
2 months ago
5 months ago
5 months ago
5 months ago
5 months ago
Success of any organizational structure relies on three pillars: 1) adequate resources; 2) strong, responsible leadership; 3) worthwhile goals.
In the absence of these three pillars, things start to degenerate quickly.
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
The only thing to do is be bored, and wait it out. Another 3 years, it will drive me crazy. Anyway thats my inside opinion.
On a more positive note you would think succesfull adults (who were once nerds)would atempt to change the system. I live in England and all i ever hear from them is "Try your best, don't do drugs... E.T.C". None of it means anything.
From an economic point of view it would be a great advantage to ensure that supernerds get the best and quickest education possible, then throw them into the real world to exel at what they do. As for the dumber ones they would get almost no education and spend the rest of their lives doing the manual jobs that are currently reserved for teenagers. They could form a perfect society where everyone has his/her place.
1 year ago
1 year ago
Now, concerning education. Popularity ranks pretty low with the ability to make a positive impact in the lives of others. Granted there is the ability to get people's attention, exercise compassion, and provide some positive contribution. However, the more intelligence you and I can acquire, the greater impact we can have in the lives of others. A doctor can treat cancer. A lawyer can help people who have been wronged or injured. A scientist can create antibiotics. Popularity at the highest levels cannot do any of those things. People who make a positive difference will never be lonely, in my opinion. In my opinion, there are those who have passed on and still want to make a positive difference in our lives and are willing to be our silent, invisible, tutors in our education and career in making a positive impact in the lives of others. Close your eyes when you get frustrated with school and work and see if the words "Do it for others" don't come to mind and inspire you to sit back down and resume your work at a new level and possibly with a clear understanding of what you just struggled with moments ago. THAT is an incredible experience. That is one that will never be unfaithful, dramatic, etc. It is one that will always be positive. One from an intelligence that has a much larger picture of life and the world we live in and can best lead you to whatever positive desires you have, even if it is popularity. The only question you might be presented with is "What will you do with it? Will you use it for to make a positive impact?"
1 year ago
1 year ago
is going to be a freshman in high school pretty soon. All I really want is a
guy best friend that I can relate with, someone real...not some sports-
oriented group that just cares about girls, getting laid, or ostracizing nerds
who aren't like them. How do I get that?
The reason is, I think there's this person that has the potential to be a great
friend of mine. But he has his own basketball/baseball crew, and I keep
reminding myself I am not like him. Yet, I want to be around him. If you knew
how much I wanted to be like a teenager right now, you would get it.
How the hell do I beat the system? That's what I want to know. What is the
single thing that will get you a bulls-eye, true relationship?
1 year ago
But let’s say he isn’t interested in you, even if you take an interest in his basketball. I want you to then remember ice cream. Hehe. What I mean is I like ice cream with a bit of vanilla, chocolate swirl, chocolate covered peanuts, and peanut butter. I know guys who prefer Rocky Road, Mint Chocolate Chip, Oreo, Pralines n’ Cream, etc. Baskin and Robbins alone has 31 flavors! Now, have you ever ordered your favorite ice cream and looked at a friend’s and said “Hmm, that looks good, can I try it?” You then try it say “Wow! That is good. I wish I had gotten that one :(.”
Here is the first point. Every guy out there (and girl, for the guys) is like an ice cream flavor. You see what’s in the case, but until you have experienced as many flavors as possible, you have no idea which is your favorite! All you can do is guess and make assumptions. So, my first recommendation is to not set your heart on a single guy until you have dated numerous types of guys.
Second point, you are a flavor too and guys have no idea what they want either. They can look in the case and make a best guess, but until they have tried numerous flavors they have no idea which is their favorite. For guys, we have an additional complication. Our biological clock says “It’s time to reproduce, even if accidentally.” That really messes up our thinking skills, but the level of intensity varies from guy to guy.
Realize too that if you have to act or dress in a different manner to get a guy, it is not worth it. To get a “real” relationship and/or friendship, you have to be you 100% from the very beginning. How long will that take? It wasn't until I was 23 and wow did I have an incredible marriage! Every other girlfriend before that, from age 12, was just a source of good times, followed by anxiety , followed by heartache, since I always wanted to go steady and not have open dating relationships. The lack of open dating was also the cause of my divorce. I had no idea what other flavors were out there and wondered if I had made the best choice. Now, 10 years later, I am saddened that to this day, I have yet to find another woman of her caliber who loves me in return like she did. I hope this all helps.
1 year ago
1 year ago
people (actually a lot), but now I feel that there's more out there
for me. In regards to ice cream, you are right! Why should I
stick around for vanilla and strawberry when New York Super
Fudge Chunk could be around the corner? Lol.
I also think that--when I get old enough, I haven't started dating
yet--I'll have open dating. I should experience it all, not set
my sight on one prospective person.
Thanks a lot, again.
1 year ago
2 months ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
I am from Australia and currently in Year 10, and in my school it seems that the most popular people are infact smart people. Maybe they use their intelligence to realise what it takes to become popular, or maybe they are just multi talented and naturally popular (yes, naturally popular, it is possible).
Thanks for the great essay.
1 year ago
-This essay was great. I'd love to read more of your work!!
1 year ago
A good google search, to be sure.
-Qes
1 year ago
Jonathan Yedidia
http://nerdwisdom.com (as you can see, I'm proud to be a nerd!)
1 year ago
Much more to say on the matter so keep your eyes peeled.
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
If I had my time at school again, I'd be a nerd again. Teenage girls are immensely boring.
1 year ago
And "will have lots of free time to read and write" ?? You act as if reading is something to kill time with, instead of something with which to increase the scope of your world. If you were a nerd, you couldn't have been a very smart one.
1 year ago
It is tribalism but intelligence is not the defining variable. I have know very smart populars and some very dumb nerds. The arrogance of the nerd tribe to assume that it's about smarts is one of the reasons why they get disdain even in the adult world, just behind their backs after they trouble shoot the office mainframe instead of to their face. It comforts them by thinking it's envy of their brains and that illusion gets them through the day. Nerds just have very specific attributes that give them high reward for low effort in specialized fields. They do not have many social skills because they do not require them. The survival fire is not under their buts enough to motivate them into the effort of it. Technology has created a niche they can be very comfortably successful in.
School is a primitive emulation of the adult social politics. It gets more subtle and refined as we get older but it never goes away. Every one chooses whether they realize it or not that they take the path of most reward for least effort optimizing their talents and skills. They go where the results are. In the wheat from chaff process over the long term many nerds get left by the wayside as much as dumb jocks, empty beauties and shallow populars do.
And it is a given that the nerd tribe breaks down into sub groups with their own status ranks.
1 year ago
School is a 'limited" emulation of adult social politics. In this Paul is exactly right. In the real world the A through D tables are so large you can choose to almost exclusively associate with the type of people you prefered in school. When you feel uncomfortable as an adult it is because you have been forced to deal with people you did not like in school.
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
I feel really bad for you actually.
Im a sophmore in high school.
And i make fun of all the nerds at our school all the time.
But i don't care because im not one of them.
1 year ago
1 year ago
It's fun, because being the so called "nerd" and being small, also makes me immune to almost all punishment. "He started it, I defended myself, why would i try to fight someone twice my size?" and I'm off. Small people have more fighting experiences then you could ever image, not to mention the speed to back it up, and maybe not pure muscle compared to you, but in comparison to body size, they most likely have more then you.
1 year ago
p.s. I think it's pretty funny reading all these high school kid's comments like, "I'm popular AND smart in my high school so your essay is wrong and I don't agree with it." It's not really about your or his experience through school, there's much much more to it than that.
1 year ago
You could be smart and attractive/popular, however, that is one of the hardest roles to play and manage in highschool, because you want to maintain a balance without messing up anything on either side, unfortunately, at this point, popularity is more important for most people, although smart people won't be shunned, nerds/socially awkward people will be out of the circle.
One thing I think is the hardest for smart people is that they realize the system. They see through it when other people can't, they know thing other people can't relate to and that makes it all the more depressing when you realize you're among the few who's in the know about how pointless school is at times but you can't beat the system. Especially the social pressure which before you and everyone else was numb to but then you see how pointless and consuming it is and yet no one ever questions it.
It's just a big, fake circle with no sense of reality, and I feel I'm just walking in an infinite loop until I graduate, the good thing is seeing kids who you know if they stick it out for a few more years, the roles will be dramatically reversed.
They always tell us that the real world is alot more harsher, scarier and worse than school. I don't think so.
1 year ago
I am facing many problems,because of my Asian descent and the distinctive way of dressing and walking.
1 year ago
Thanks for the information. Knowing this from somebody who's been through that to the real world, I can walk through the school social scenes with confidence that it won't affect me in the real world, although I've always known that, sort of consciously.
You keep saying that such barbaric situations are "back then" - but it's still like that, and I doubt it'll change any time soon.
1 year ago
Just as a ray of hope, there are private schools that are not as empty, and provide structure and growth for the students enrolled there. If we could simply model public schools on successful private schools, we would be well on the way to remedying the situation you have so ably described.
1 year ago
1 year ago
Overall I wreckon u can be smart n kool and that its reaally easy.hOPE PEOPLE CAN REPLY TO DIS!
1 year ago
@ mi skool im sorta in da middle but there r still major populartity issues
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
I'm not sure how I feel about the dismissive tone about popular stuff being "dumb"-- while it wasn't academic in nature, surely, my "quest for popularity" was anything but stupid, I think. I started out as a nerd (but my school was in Canada, which I am learning makes it weird-- there was a provincial instead of local hierarchy, most schools had a 'magnet'-- mine was gifted kids and an auto shop, while down the road was high-performance athletes, and another had art/drama, and another was for kids who struggled with school... you get the idea. They all still had the regular, 'local' kids, but then a huge displaced chunk of kids coming from across the city for one specific thing. But I digress) and worked my way up. I mostly did this by getting really nerdy about 'cool' things-- music, comedy, things like that. I still played plenty of video games, but I was listening to an amazing band that nobody at school would hear of for months. People would occasionally attempt to ostracize me or tease me, but I'd become confident enough that I was able to brush them off like I meant it (having a good zinger comes in very handy for this). Hell, I got a pair of stylish glasses in my junior year and some clothes that didn't look like they were from a department store (in retrospect, they probably WERE from a department store) and ended up dating one of the most sought-after girls at school! Then again, I was lucky in that nerdiness was kind of 'cool' in the early 2000s. I just exploited that fact really, really well.
That kind of leads me into my next point, which is that nerdiness is becoming chic. Yeah, we've heard it a million times, for sure. But I remember my last year of high school as virtually run by former nerds-- there was my friend M, who was the only kid our grade wearing punk shirts to school in grade 9 and was made fun of for his weight throughout, who became incredibly charming and school president in his last year. There was me, who talked about final fantasy and wore sweatpants, but at some point got a clue and turned into the hilarious guy everyone wanted to hang out with on breaks. My friend G was, well, one of my best friends, and he grew about 6 inches one summer and stopped talking funny and started looking pretty good, so he was a shoe-in.
I forget where I was going with this. Oh yeah... my point: there were kids who were nerds and freaks at the beginning of school who became the 'cool' kids by the end of school. It wasn't because they sold out and picked on other people; it was because they realized that the two important aspects of popularity are mass appeal and confidence. Once you realize the first, you recognize that virtually everyone has the potential to have mass appeal-- if you're not sporty, you can be charming, or funny, or badass, or whatever else you can think of. And once you realize what you can exploit, the confidence follows. And if that kind of reasoning isn't nerdy enough for you, I'm not sure I know what nerd even means any more.
1 year ago
1 year ago
Bullying still exists however, its not as bad as people who come from the preceding generation say it is. I'm a Senior this year, and from what I've seen nearly all of my fellow nerds have also seen little to none teasing or bullying. What seems to stay consistent is the very top of the spectrum. Kids who are rich, on the football team, or simply "hot" (as girls put it) continue to rule the school. Nerds, in their eyes, are simply losers.
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
But also what you wrote confirmed our decision (our kids' decision, mostly) for our home education program. Our kids learn what will promote a good merge into adult culture. My oldest loves to write, so she writes. My oldest boy loves to create and plan and draw, so he creates and plans and draws. Yes, they have the typical academic courses, but as they teach themselves, they motivate themselves. I'm there to faciliate and guide their learning.
They also have the opportunity to join in a more adult world as they volunteer their time in possible work scenarios that may end up being their life's work. My sophomore daughter teaches other homeschooled kids, and she loves it; she may have found her future in education. She also volunteers for our town's newspaper, so journalism may be in her future also. Because of home education, she has the time to pursue her own interests as well as complete solid academic work including the study of Latin, her own choice.
When I taught at the university level, I could see some of the "nerds" coming out of their shells as they accessed a more adult world. Yes, the "popular" people still existed, but there were enough nerds around for them to join together and find their niche in university life. I hope that this phenomenon starts to unravel during the more independent college years, if not during the junior high and high school years themselves. It's just so sad to know that many children suffer needlessly this way. The damage must be immense.
1 year ago
This statement above made me upset, yes they do set out to do it on purpose, I was not the most smartest in school, but I certainly didnt have to work hard to get good grades, my problem was people thought I was weird. I hope one day I can find an article like yours to explain and relieve some stress for being the weird kid. It helped me a little but not a lot, I didnt have the oh so sad life of being in a suburb, most of my life was in the inner city hoods of beautiful california, and the downtown mess. I didnt have a mom that liked to dress her pretty daughter nice, and she was cruel and sick minded, and then came the other adults, then the kids, like I dont remember the kids hurting me that much, because the adults ripped me apart before they ever could. It was mostly the adults in my life that wanted me to have the pain of the nerds you spoke of, and the kids just followed along. My mother hated me, so my brothers did, then my brothers made other kids hate me, and now I see how such behavior could start, you let me know how bullies really think, sadly my biggest bully was my mom.
Thank you for your article, and I'm glad I did a little more healing.
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
I just googled 'why' because I felt like I wanted to hear an answer to some random question I didn't ask.
This article came up, its awesome!
I'm from Australia, but I can definately relate.
I love how simple, clear and accurate this essay is.
1 year ago
this article is amazing and definetly sums up school life
I'm from ireland and the social system in my school seems very similar to your schools
(by the way I am in 2nd year or 14th grade i think)
1 year ago
Here in Brazil, at least in my school I didn't saw much of this bullying and outcasting, it's weaker here. Bullies are often recognized as plain evil, even to other children. But I think you are right: schools works as a prison, just because kids have no use. And I started reading this article believing this was the only way.
1 year ago
i can see how it got kids attention from around the world.
nice judgements.
1 year ago
I'm currently considering my status as a would be customer service representative and wondering if I'm actually a nerd.
I was a "freak" in high school, always wore black and sure, I had connections with the so called "dorks" in high school as well. I'm currently unemployed and have been for about a year and a half and I'm just about ready to re-enter the workforce so I've been searching for an identity that I can hold on too as I re-enter the "real world".
I'm 25 and living in the suburbs again with my parents and I can tell you, it'a a bit of a nightmare. This place is deserted. TAKE ME BACK TO THE CITY!
Ahhh well, If you're reading this you're probably wondering if I have a point to make.....well, I don't!
HAHA!
Have a nice day.
1 year ago
1 year ago
You constantly feel you have to keep up and image, and as soon as you laugh "too loud", or make a fool of yourself it's seen as scandal.
But I didn't know where else to go, all my friends were in the popular crowd.
Then we were mixed up for subjects such as maths and science, and in top set I met other people as none of the popular crowd was in top set. Of course there were nerds in our class, but there were also...(excuse the word) normal people, interesting people, who made real conversation, instead of meaningless gossip. I loved it, and made some amazing friends.
I suppose now me and my friends would be...about B or B- in the popularity scale.
I could never go back to the popular crowd, because I'm now an outcast from that group. But I'd never want to go back there.
Your article triggered a lot of memories for me :) Thanks for posting it.
Whoa, my comments almost as long as your article so I'll end it on this - When describing popular kids, all you can say is "They're popular". Popular with who? Their friends. Does make everyone popular? No of course not. So why are they described as popular? Because without their popularity they have nothing else.
1 year ago
I'm being very blunt here, but for years I have been observing the way people act, etc. I figured that I might as well share my knowlegde.
1 year ago
1 year ago
If you really think nerds are smarter and the popular cool kids are dumb then your wrong.
I used to be on the Basketball team and now I am on the Track And Field team in my high school and I am in honors.
Many "nerds" are in Honors, but in regular also.
Nerds aren't that smart, plus I rather be on a sports team with a 91+ average and have a nice social life rather than being a nerd. A nerd with a 93+ no athleticism, and almost no extra-curricular activities except for chess team.
Why aren't nerds popular? Cause they aren't that much smarter then the "cool kids", they talk to themselves a lot, start conversations with random people about random stuff... Example:
Me: Hi
Nerd: Oh hi, yeah so I can finally kick my brothers ass in Halo 3..."
Me: Um Okay cool bye.
Okay maybe I started that one but you get the point.
Also even geeks some of 'em have like 98+ AP classes averages and such AND DO SPORTS, they also have a good social life...
Nerds are more of the fat kids who snort when they laugh and such.
1 year ago
1 year ago
The difference is that there's a reason to fit in online. It comes naturally from practice, and online culture makes you smarter. not myspace of course, but in general finding articles like this and arguing about them is useful. You can always leave the game, or be a passive observer. And the society is far from a closed bubble, of course.
So then, why are there people as abusive as Marco? why would those who fail at being acceptable online be in any position to bully? I think it's a habit. good luck picking on the nerds on the Internet, you'll drown in reasoned debate.
by the way kristina, you're as wrong as he is. jocks aren't all stupid, and honors takes dedication. You fit in online quite well, because of your experience and intelligence, and so you bully less intelligent people who are awkward online.
nerds bullying jocks...ain't the Internet great?
1 year ago
I get that "yeah... that sounds right..." feeling.
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
I guess I just want to say, being yourself and out there is extremelly important. Don't just limit yourself to one friend group, try out different things, don't be scared to fail and you'll make lots of new friends and be invited to many parties and feel loved and popular:-) thanks for reading.
1 year ago
pretty hard and harsh, mind. at football, i was always embarrased at being one of the last ones, but id look real dumb wandering around on the field.
part of it, i found out, is racism...
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
You write as if you knew me in school. At my 20th reunion, a woman, whom I didn't recognize, walked up to me and said, "I'm so sorry for what we did to you." I'll spare the details of those dark years, as you've outlined them in your essay; all I could add would be the particulars of my situation.
Based on my experiences, I have a lifelong hatred of bullies, utmost respect for folks like John McCain who were POWs, and a strong dislike of planning, utopianism, and ideology. I hope that the homeschooling movement helps to deschool society (to borrow Ivan Illych's phrase), and that the utter failure of our schools, in an era of shrinking budgets, will lead to their collapse, a la the Velvet Revolution that swept away Communism in Eastern Europe. Thank you for the public service you've done by so eloquently identifying the root causes of the problem with American public secondary schools: purposelessness and boredom.
-Lloyd A. Conway
P.S. Parochial schools are different, I think. Where my wife teaches, they do have a mission, the kids learn, and they're a pretty happy lot.
1 year ago
but i'm a straight A student and i'm popular so i don't understand why other smart people can't be popular
Hhhmmm!!!!!!
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
Now I'm the mac and it has made the past all worth while.
1 year ago
1 year ago
This should be required reading at all high schools. Cant wait to read the rest of the book in between my hacking binges.
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
I would consider myself slightly 'arty,' and if I had to place myself in a social ranking I would be just above average. I'm odd though, in that I have close friends who are in the Rugby A team (a sure-fire ticket to social stardom) and nerds who spend lunch break looking up upcoming video games on the internet. This has its drawbacks, as in I am invited to parties where I feel very uncomfortable, or drawn into sports conversations I honestly couldn't care less about.
Partly because I am what I like to call a 'secret geek.' I am ashamed to say that I pick on those who are truly unpopular like everyone else, when in my heart I do the same things they do. I just don't tell anyone. I often wish I had someone to debate Buffy the Vampire slayer with, or to write with on a pbp rpg. But I shroud these things in so much secrecy, because they're existance would send me spiralling to the bottom of the social ladder.
Wow, this really mutated from 'i like this essay' to an introspective on my life. It feels good to type this, safe behind my iron curtain of secrecy. Anyway, I really like the article. It's very true.
- J, of Guildford
1 year ago
here is another nerd, who is just finishing school and doesnt know where to go, my aspiration is "the sky is the limit", no wonder why I dont like those people who say "you can become a doctor" for I dont want to become a doctor, there are doctors !!
I may like to talk to anyone of you here ( because anyone has read this page and is reading the comments must be a little geek) so you can find me in Yahoo Answers "hidden" under the nickname of WISE_monkey .
I would really like to chat with you, by the way I am a born christian-arab (dont activate your hearsay system) , but I dont care for all those racism, because i know that we all humans share one thing, for we are VERSION 2 OF MONKEYS.
peace on all
1 year ago
1 year ago
Fortunately, I am one of the few who have a bit of use in society. I got some prints of my artwork into a local art store recently and hope to add more soon! :) (my website shows them)
1 year ago
I was beginning to question the whole system when I found your site! Thank you so much for the advice!
1 year ago
If you are anything like me you will try to analyze what I said to find out which category I am in. well I’m going to ruin you fun and tell you. I’m not in the popular crowd, but Im definitely not a nerd. Luckily I popped out a female and as we all know, the anatomy of a female (no matter what she looks like…ok maybe with a few exceptions) gets a heads up on the scale of any nerd. Aka, a nerdy boy usually looks worse than a nerdy girl. I’m getting off topic… my point being I am not a nerd. Neither did I get good grades. I’m terrible at spelling and grammar and its embarrassing how horrible I am. I guess you could say I’m … a little slow, at everything. I was a ugly little thing in middle school but by the time I reached high school popularity groups had already been established, restricting me to only jump up a few notches never allowing me to reach the most popular peak, (which I didn’t care much about as long as I wasn’t an outcast). I also didn’t care because what really mattered was what the boys thought of me, not the girls. A popular girl could trick herself into thinking I’m not competition because of my social status conducted from previous years before, but males at that age don’t thing with that part of their … brain? I guess you could say.
I’m only telling you all of this because I have no mental challenge at the moment, ( I dropped out of high school because my eating disorder was taking over my life and I’m getting my GED, but I haven’t had a good assignment in much too long) and I was looking for some mental stimulation. So thanks for writing your thesis, so I could critique it.
1 year ago
1 year ago
p.s. I'm still a nerd at heart. I'm in one of the best engineering programs in [my] country.
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
Once you get into the 7th grade the system becomes so screwed up that you stop learning entirely. Like in math, you waste your time with review of everything you ever learned about math half of the semester, and when they finally start teaching something new the repeat it so much that you don't make any progress. My guess as to why this happens is that they are trying to include people who "learn by repetition" instead of working with each student individually.
As well as that the nerds who get bad grades realize that the adults are trying to prevent this I've seen posters put up in classrooms that say things like "Question: When will I ever use this? Answer: You can never use what you've never learned." These are put up to counter the few sparks of brilliance the even the most dim witted people have, even if it doesn't answer the question. In fact it seems to me that it proves nothing. We know we cannot use it if we don't know how to, but if there is no where you are going to use it, than why bother learning it, but if you mention this obvious fact you're told you have an additude, or ironically that you are being smart.
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
Second: Whssaaaooo, a very interesting piece.
Looking forward to your Hard Cover!
1 year ago
I would like to mention that as you have it stated, "Nerd" is not interchangeable with smart, and as a result you leave out the fact that there can be many intelligent people who still are completely social. This results in a massive hole in the thesis. Nerds, people who are smart and not socially adept, are unpopular. Wouldn't you also agree that people who are not socially adept are unpopular as well (That is to say the theoretical loner who has no friends. Even if people secretly think he's cool, as some girls think nerds are cool, he still has very little social contact, and is generally unpopular, because popularity must be recognized to be measured.) Thus what you really should be saying is socially inadept people are inadept socially! Popularity is a direct measure of your social ability around a group of people, and thus in a group of people (kids) who you are not adept socially, you are unpopular. It is very rarely, and you might say never, the case that a socially inadept person is popular among kids. In a group of outsiders who admire the "really outsider" kid, he is not socially in adept, but idolized and popular, and thus adept within that group.
Thus we are left with the other side of the coin. What if what you really are trying to say is that intelligent people are intrinsically unpopular.This is closer to the truth within schools, but demands that unpopular be defined for all subsets of kids. By your definition "nerds" already don't have the social ability, but the lack of social ability sprouts from "intelligent people" ignoring it! I have known many intelligent people who have not become "socially inadept"(for we are talking only about social adeptness, as intelligence *itself* is not unpopular), and I have known plenty of people with below average intelligence who are socially inadept. At the same time, those on the fringes who are not popular among those circles can form their own "outsider" circles, but can be just as smart as those outside and just as popular as others within their own circles. Given a large enough population in any given circle, bullying between social circles would not exist.
You speak from the experience that the outsiders (D table) only had one table out of everyone. What if the outsiders had just as many tables as the A tables? What if they had more? The common idea of the "common" high school student would be thrown out the window if they were less common, however in everyones minds they remain the same( the sports team/cheerleading partiers). However when there are more D than A, doesn't existing in group D give you much more popularity without as much social restrictions, especially if you already have been associating yourself with that group? If you have declared yourself a nerd, and now you enter an environment with more nerds than sports players, you are on top (college matches this perfectly). Intelligence itself doesn't cause unpopularity or social awkwardness now, because you are in a group of like-minded people who all value intelligence. Secondary schools could be exactly the same given the right mix of students, however there will necessarily be less like minded intelligent people because not all people go to college, and thus the ratios will be different. In today's high schools, intelligence has become a more popular thing to have that previously. It is not as important a factor yet as "fitting in", but given the right set of conditions, children will find the next big trend and just like your example of John Nash picking up new habits of the people he admired, they will latch onto the trend and run with it.
To sum up: Intelligence is not a factor in popularity, but associations and populations of like-minded people is. If there is enough people with the same ideals as you, you will have both popularity and social acceptance, whether this group values intelligence or field goals, or whatever. The current status of the schools can change, but the change can be seen in the students without new school systems given time and the right societal changes to redefine what is popular.
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
"Popularity" has many faces.
A blabbering extrovert does not equal popularity in some circles.
1 year ago
1 year ago
Though schools certainly vary.
In my school, there is no one society of teenagers. There is the main collection of students, divided into blacks and whites and grays. There is the main group of athletic kids, and then the other groups. The smaller groups lead happier junior high careers, are smarter (though not necessarily academicaly), and quieter. They are also close-knit among each other, and there are certain social classes that neither harm nor benefit. They look at the main group, with its intricacies and its drama, and laugh. I am one of the outsider group.
It's interesting to see how else a junior high system can be organized, but it seems that it all boils down to the same bubble and the same need for organization--however savage.
Though, the intricacies of junior high life are more likely than not infinite. There is a certain rulebook built into people's minds absolutely FILLED with exceptions and clauses. Popularity is not a black and white thing, and the society in a school is not singular. A school is a large enough environment to achieve numerous societies with their own social castes. The way you have written about it simplifies it: "popular" is defined by being liked within the largest society in the school. In reality, it is different. There are cliques which range from large to small, either having or not having social classes. Smaller cliques form larger societies of closest-knit cliques, in which existing social castes blend and conflict with each other.... As I said, the rulebook has infinite clauses. I say this coming fresh from this system on a Friday night after school.
So, you certainly might have included more about that in your essay. Though all in all, there's definitely a lot of good in it. Good job, and thank you for giving me something to think about.
1 year ago
1 year ago
My high school experience was a little different and doesn't fit the mold. It was an all girls Catholic High School. It was entrance by exam, college prep, and very competitive. When girls don't have to worry about being unattractive to boys, its a funny thing. They get smarter. And lacking achieving male attention as a common pursuit, they compete at being smart against each other.
While the smartest girls were NOT the most popular--which holds with your distracted theory, I found--they were not persecuted or unpopular by any stretch but greatly admired. By Junior and Senior year there was very little antagonism between the popular and unpopular girls.
I was by all rights a nerd but I ventured into the freak category in as much as I flaunted not studying--but this was to differentiate myself from the Grinds. I was NATURALLY smart, you see. This was my way of setting myself a part--advertising emotional angst and complete intellectual boredom. This eventually succeeded in getting me begrudging admiration across cliques--or at least it seemed that way to me. And while it prevented me from developing a good work ethic, it set me apart.
To show you how unusual the all girls competitive environment is: the most anticipated day of the year was rank day. Each quarter there was a clamoring as the class rank was posted. The top 5 (which occasionally but not usually included me) were quiet, sweet girls who worked hard (I was the exception, there--Lazy But Smart). They were universally well liked, for no other reason than they were NICE and eager to please but not sycophants. And the Top 10 was not without at least 3 or 4 of the most popular girls in school.
The real social qualifier, in most cases ESSENTIAL for popularity: MONEY. And you could tell who had the money even in uniform: by the earrings they wore and their shoes alone.
An unusual but interesting and, for a female, invaluable high school experience. If I could send my daughter to an all girls educational environment I would in a heartbeat. It never occurred to me in high school that being smart was a liability.
That didn't happen until I discovered boys and the rest of the world in college. Talk about a rude awakening.
1 year ago
1 year ago
P.S.
The guy below me (DO not wake the Dreamer) is very ignorant not because he said it is "stupid" but to have such a small statement not even to back it up (probobly Cause he didnt read it all) and negative comments for what? does it make him feel better cause he pts a "stupid" smile at the end of his sentence? I hate "Stupid" People
1 year ago
How can you put a value on that? It's hard to prove, but we see it all the time with our children so we have come to believe. John Holt would be happy to see this online.
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
it's like i'm the one who's writing it... you can really see what's going on...
SO GREAT!!
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
You just cant begin to explain em.
You cant just classify reasons why people are unpopular. Their are many.
The closest I could probably explain it imo is: Basically it just boils down to people being twats to a certaing degree, and people trying to not be seen as shit or whatever by the twats. And then them who are just noticed as people the twats dont like who find it hard to socially inteeract with others.
But ye even that isnt right. Theres just too many reasons :P
1 year ago
But when I was in puplic school (last year) my class was mostly popular kids so every time a nerd, geek or ''retard'' came their parents would ''mysteriosly'' pull them out of school!! We didnt realy have seprate tables, but most people would move if someone they didnt like came!!!
1 year ago
1 year ago
Im bug scrole down!
1 year ago
1 year ago
It's just so funny to see how so much of your article applied to my life. Though I was a nerd during my adolescent years, I turned out graduating college with honors and getting a great job, and leaving the white trash bullies of past years in my dust.
Funny how some of the people who disagree with this article happened to be the popular ones in school. They seem to feel threatened that the nerds 'play a game much closer to the one played in the real world.' Too bad for them. They're also not the ones that are at the bottom looking up in this hierarchy.
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
If I wasn't shy, I wouldn't be this smart. But w/e, live and let live.
(anubis? hard one!)
1 year ago
Nerds are awesome!!
1 year ago
"So if intelligence in itself is not a factor in popularity, why are smart kids so consistently unpopular? The answer, I think, is that they don't really want to be popular."
I realized I was lucky enough to learn this in 7th grade. Really being avrage just means they don't put in effort. I learned that because you want to achive more all you have to do is show that you put in the effert. ( Please bear my spelling it's math and science for me).
1 year ago
Being famous is an adult's version of being "popular at school" and look how they are treated by everyone else. No different than the relationships between nerds and popular kids - And most of them are simply famous because they're either good looking or good atheletes - just like school.
As for why smart kids are nerds.
The popular kids are:
a) the best looking
b) the best fighters and
c) the best atheletes.
Everyone else in their group are gimps, the reason why nerds stay away is because they're smart enough to realise this.
1 year ago
theres a diffrence between knowing its this_string.equal(other_string) because of what the book literally said vs knowing the appropriate use between that and this_string == that_string based on understanding of pointers (Mr. grahm, please forgive the use of java in this example, it was the first thing to pop in my head)
IE: quoting random trivia is not and will never be an accurate measure of intelligence
1 year ago
some popular kids at my school are in honors math (the highest)
and some nerds at my school arn't smart
i think that personality is what determines your popularity
anyway, thats just what i think =]
1 year ago
1 year ago
Americans are just across an ocean from the UK. Are you truly that different? Can you not excel academically and in sports? Can the school student not be happy independent of their academic record?
Tell me that you went to a bad, a-typical school. With your essay, and certain teen films we see over here, it paints a cruel and selfish portrait of American school life.
- Paddy.
1 year ago
This essay makes a lot of sense to me. One thing you said was very interesting to me:
"There was something else I wanted more: to be smart. Not simply to do well in school, though that counted for something, but to design beautiful rockets, or to write well, or to understand how to program computers. In general, to make great things."
I couldn't agree more. This explains a lot. for example, I'm a grade-A nerd (quite literally) but I don't try hard on boring assignments. I can admit I' m a slacker, for several reasons. First, I don't _need_ to try hard. I get good grades anyway. but also, I'd rather work out a tricky computer program or make yet another useless geometric picture-cipher than spend extra time reviewing for a test I know I'll do well on. nerds don't have time to be popular because they're thinking about things on a more abstract level (or maybe that's just me).
I'm a nerd, but I don't care much about grades. It makes sense, really. in the article you talked about the meaninglessness of grades and tests. I'm smart enough to realize playing the game of perfect grades is a useless as popularity (well, almost). I just have more intellectually stimulating things to do than worry about my clothes. or obsess over essays.
after this rant, though, I need to add that I do try hard on interesting assignments. I'm a perfectionist if I want to write a good essay for its own sake, if not for the grades. And a good report card is the ticket I need to slack off. Pass a certain point, and you can spend class time doodling on graph paper.
1 year ago
If Your Not Confident Enough
Pretty Enough
Fake Enough
Then Your Not Accepted
And If You Try Hard To Get Notcied You Get Called a Suck Up
Theres No Way Of Winning Its Quite Depressing ...Thats Why I Can't Wait to Leave School Not Because Of The Work Because Of The People
1 year ago
i grew up killing your friends and my parents were the same !
us cool people hate you you scum bag !
eat dirt!
i rape you in the showers while you scream my name
'again captain scott'
i love ur buttocks
grrrrrrr u nerd
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
If you are cool then I hope I am not, I would hate to be the link to our Neanderthal past that you are demonstrating so clearly. You are the reason this world is in caos, you are the reason there are so many wars, you very exsistence is proof of devolution and lastly you are so stupid you probably have no idea what I just wrote. :) Have fun.
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
In about year 8 I was friends with some of the 'popular' crowd but I didnt like them very much because they were always bitching about each other so much. That's why i tend to habg around with the 'freaks/nerds' I find them more friendly. True I dont hang around with the very odd people, but I wish I had time to talk to them more, because I am sure they are actually very nice people.
1 year ago
1 year ago
I am a High School Nerd just like the ones you talked about here, and what you have said is extremely relevant, and is also an inspiration for when I get the middle finger in class for knowing what pi is.
Just 3 more years ;)
1 year ago
1 year ago
Great essay dude... Drop me a line sometime: ferret949@yahoo.com
1 year ago
Thankyou
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
RHCP rules!
1 year ago
I, for the record, would like to reaffirm one point: I don't have perfect grades... nor to I really even care about the grade beyond getting accepted in to collage. My passion is Math and my hobby is writing randomly. I neither need nor care about the grade because my life doesn’t revolve around them. Grades are only as good as the person behind them.
-Vorlondel-
1 year ago
1 year ago
1st observation - To become popular often you first need to believe yourself to be above others, if you do not believe this yourself then how will others? An automatic response to this is to believe you have the right to pick on those you feel are below you. Once you do this you notice it gains you popularity and often will continue to, until your popularity is based on your ability to belittle others. However a smart person learns quicker, everyone gets trod on by someone, and a smart person very quickly learns empathy, the ability to place themselves in someone else shoes. I know myself I could never belittle anyone else for a simple reason - it could be me, and so my popularity never grew via this method.
2nd Observation - It is human genetics and most animal genetics that automatically make the strongest and most confident man or even woman the alpha man/woman and not brains, and it is true alot of people have one or the other and not both. Why? why dont clever people wish to make themselves footballers, and compete? Well often they dont see the point, it is hard physical work, why would you need that if you have brains. Actually you are looking the wrong way, often people become clever because instead of going to kick a ball around, they stayed in reading, or even watching tv (yes tv can teach you somethings) again drawing from my experience, I liked to play football, but I liked to read just as much, there is another reason I prefered to stay in (see obs. 3).
Observation 3 - Smart people often lack good social skills as children, they see things differently and do not like to talk about meaningless things such as going to school, they wish to talk about possiblities and things that often the less smart have no idea about, and this will always be one of the biggest dampers to conversation, People hate what they dont understand and so the less smart will try and shut up the smart, again this is automatically seen by others as a show of power, and so one loses rep for not standing up while the other gains for pushing down. They also lack the social skills for other reasons in ome cases, for exam they consider other people more (see obs1) and so do not wish to push in and so the conversation will go on without them saying anything (not good), when they do say something it will be misinterpereted because they know what they mean,but telling it to someone of less intelligence is not so easy (like trying to open an excel 2007 with excel 95)
4th observation - I actually have met some very intelligent popular people, who for the very simple reason that smart is seen as bad do not wish to be seen as smart incase they are disrespected.
Alot of these reasons work back and forth between each other, however it is good to know that those that have problems normally get passed them as the get older, though to say that the hierachy is not there in adults would be wrong, atleast the way people see each other can stay the same for life, I know grandparents that still despise the smart/popular/sexy/ugly for no reason other than it is what they learned to do in school.
These are my thoughts, maybe I am wrong, and I agree with most of what I read of yours.
1 year ago
I know there are some meat heads out there who will reply to this saying something highly intelligent such as "That was the biggest load of turd ever." to those that do - if you aint got something nice to say - "SHUT THE HELL UP"
PS it helps if you do gain some muscle to defend yourself ;)
1 year ago
What you guys want is people to like you yes? So be yourself. For the benefit of the younger me, that kid who is getting bullied for being different, be yourself, do not allow other people to push you around.
Talk with people dont block them out, do not be shy, if you are shy people will see it as weakness and will prey on it and you will just become more shy.
I may sound like a blathering idiot, and sometimes it is hard to communicate exactly what I mean. However I have been from the lowest of the low to the highest of the high. I am not stupid, I have an IQ last tested of 150, but none of it matters if you do not have friends, they are what support you, they are what make your life bearable, you can strive to be like those footballers and cheerleaders if you want, but you have to ask yourself, what do you really want, to be a stuck up arrogant morron or to have friends, because at the end of the day I will always go for having mates. "divided we fall, but together we stand tall". I will tell you a story about the difference having friends can make instead being the guy that makes everyone else life a misery.
"I was once in a club with my brother, fairly drunk, my brother is 2 years younger than me and a "popular" kid, I love him though, and will protect him no matter what. We were just standing talking to other people when another kid came over and started to punch my brother, again and again, with another big guy stopping people from getting near, at first I was shocked because I had no idea what was going on, I thought maybe he had done something, so I started to walk over and said to the guy "hey what are you doing, what has dan done" at this point no-one else was coming at all to protect dan (my brother) and the big guy just says "stay out of it", so I said "no he is my brother, tell me what he has done" at this point the big guy swings for me and I catch his hand, the guy that was hitting my brother stopped and swung for me 2 but I catch his hand aswell and hold on so they cant swing at me, at this point about 30 of my friends, swarm around us and push us apart, my brother walks outside and heads for home, while I am standing in the middle of a crowd of people all stopping these guys from getting anywhere near me, it is then that I realised who my friends were and that I would not give them up just to seem like the popular person. Those were all people who I had just accepted and talked to as people. It is even funnier that I later became mates of sorts with the big guy because he respected not only the fact that I was the only to stand up to him but that everyone else rushed to protect me but not my brother. "
There are many bullies who you may think you are above or better than, there are many snobs that you may think you are better than, footballers, cheerleaders, even bums, and tramps or your average joe. Let me put you straight, and if you are clever and of open mind you will understand this - "You are wrong". You are not better or worse than anyone around you, you are different everyone has been shaped by different lives, by different genes, but at the end of the day if you do not understand that, you are just as ignorant as a racist, nazi, or whatever, that may be hard to take, and I am not saying you should let people get away with what they want, you shouldn't I am saying that you should manage to understand that - in their shoes you WOULD do the same.
So next time you talk to a "cheerleader" or "footballer", talk to them not as a superior or inferior person, but as an equal.
Most important of all even more than being clever are friends and enjoying yourself, life, is for the living, live it, dont hide away and watch it go by. If you are lonely you can come on here and talk, I will talk back if I am around, but dont get sucked in to this, get out, make friends.
Please listen to me, I have seen too much misery in this world caused by one man wishing to be better than another, as soon as the world understands we can live as equals it will be a much better place to live.
1 year ago
1 year ago
I am not trying to preach here, if you are happy where you are at, I say to you stay there, but if you are one of those people who like me used to sit in the corner alone and sad, try and change it, dont keep sitting there, the problem propbably wont go away.
I have a good friend who is stuck in a rut that she has worked herself so deeply she does not want to do what is needed to get out, she has left it too long and ahs got used to being sad and alone, I watch her and I try and pull her out but at the end of the day she has to be the one to change her situation, I can provide a ladder but only she can climb it.
My message to anyone stuck in a situation alone is that you dont have to stay there, climb out, find your strength of will, the longer you leave it the worse it gets.
I dont know what more to say, there are people out there who want to get you, who are so selfish and narrow minded they cannot see beyond their own eyes, but be happy in knowing that you are not them. They will have problems all the rest of their lifes most likely, whereas you can step out and change your future. Also be happy to know that if you look properly there are probably alot more people willing to help you than you first believe. I am one but in every society there will be others there to help.
1 year ago
1 year ago
As a freshman in high school (and one of the smart girls who was saved from nerd-hood by good looks), I must say I agree. I went to an amazing elementary/middle school combo school, but once I got into high school... challenges disappeared. I've told a senior friend who agreed with me that the only reason I still go is so that I can get out of it, aka get into a great university so that I WILL be challenged.
1 year ago
As a guy who can't throw a football worth a damn and of average fitness level, I'm not high on the "popularity hierarchy", but I'ce also learned to not really give a damn, either in my senior year. Realizing this fact has made life a little easier.
Of course I'm also a bit older (20 as opposed to 17/18) due to not doing so well at school before (homeschool is much worse, let me tell you), and as a nerd, I'm not by far of the most unpopuar kids in school, mainly due to having built something up in creative writing class with my input (I've been doing it for quite awhile) and quirky humor. Of course it isn't the nerdiness that is getting me anywhere, but that I've learned some semblance of social skills in my time.
I think the biggest poblem for me growing up was never fitting to any of the "social norms" you find anywhere. I can get along with most groups now without really having to conform... Um, hard to explain what I mean, just that as time went on I've been with this or that group but always as an outsider. or something.
Damn.
I mean, good essay. Really hits home and gives me more hope for the future.
1 year ago
I'm a nerd too, and every day I get commented on who I am and the way I am.
But this essay made me realize some important things and completely changed
my view on society.
I thank you.
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
Before you can succeed in the external world, it's best to master your internal world. Zen meditation helps speed that process up by clearing up mind blocks.
It helps ease mind waves in a sense that it ask you to accept things are they are as they appear in the moment.
I recommend the Book "Zen Mind: Begginers Mind" to get started if you are interested.
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
but from what i hear i thing that what is written is 100% true
1 year ago
1 year ago
If your a true "smart" nerd reading these comments, remember one thing above all else.....what you do or not do in high school will matter when you graduate from high school...whether or not you go to college or not. Think of high school as a big fish tank with lots of other fishes......all of the fishes in the tank will eventually be released into the ocean, how popular, good looking, or athletic some fish may be in your tank will mean nothing once they are released in to the ocean......these good looking, popular, and athletic fishes will have an overwhelming amount of competition once released into the ocean with billions of other fish...their once "top-of-the pecking order status while in the tank may just now leave them feeling like a "Guppy"......it will be the smart fish that were in the tank who have the best chance of surviving in the ocean...brains matter folks. Stick to your chess clubs, your computer clubs, business classes, and stalk your school and local libraries.....it is the "Mr. & Ms. Bill Gate's'" of the world who will ultimately excel and be successful.....smart successful people in the "real world" are admired, needed, and in the end.....DO Get The Girl (or guy as-you-may).
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
I do know that I visited my Aunt in America when I was about twelve I think I met a grouping of 'popular kids', a group of older siblings of my cousins friends. It didn't go well, I said hi and they looked at me as if I was a repulsive insect before returning to their previous conversation. I didn't understand at the time why. I know now, that, while I regarded them ar rather rude, they viewed themselves as superior to me and thus beyond their notice.
I would agree with the point of bordom causing the various class divides and I feel that I was lucky with the ammount of great teachers I had. The only class that I was kinda bored with was history/geography and that was because I kept wanting to correct the teacher (due to the fact that I was really interested in both subjects and was reading beyond the levels he studied). After a while I just started bringing novels in, it was a laugh, he didn't notice until another student pointed it out.
1 year ago
1 year ago
I think that what you describe applies to nerds/geeks everywhere. At least, it applies to what I lived through at a good public high school in Spain, the country where I grew up, during the eighties.
I don't think the problem in the US is necessarily worse than in other countries. The advantage American nerds have over nerds elsewhere is that they can come to Silicon Valley or other geek clusters and live happy lives right after high school graduation or right after college (if they didn't get into one of the Bay Area's schools and wanted to get a bachelors degree before going to work). .
For me to come to the Bay Area, I had to work very hard through college to be among the top graduates of my class, so I could be hired by an American company based in Spain so I could be transferred to the Bay Area. By the time I came here, I was already 26 and I found myself as an immigrant here. Even though this is as close to a meritocracy as it can be humanly possible made, you American geeks enjoy the advantage of having been born and raised in the country which is home to geek wonderland (therefore don't have to deal with language/cultural barriers)! So please, be thankful to that!!!!!
1 year ago
1 year ago
You're a kid, I'm guessing that anyways.
Insulting things that you don't understand is an indication of stupidity.
It was a very well written essay and happens with various levels of harshness in schools in the developed world, it depends on the teachers and the subject matter as to how severely the groups are defined.
1 year ago
1 year ago
I would say the meaninglessness of the teen years is mirrored by the meaninglessness of the mid-life crisis years, after career success has topped out and the kids have gone off to college. Nowadays people in that age group seem to have found renewed meaning through trying to survive longer, thus becoming obsessed with health fads. Or they want to survive into other lives through reincarnation, and so take up spiritual paths.
I suspect the only reason teens feel the sub-society they are in is meaningless is because their survival needs are taken care of by others. Ask a gang banger in the projects who doesn't always get food for dinner reliably provided by a struggling working parent or a strung out junkie parent how bored he is with life. He probably is disinterested in school except as his marketplace for the drugs he will sell to finance a trip to Burger King and hopefully some bling and more. Suburban middle class comfort is what has made all of life so irrelevant to the teens you write about.
What I want to know is, do we humans ever get past mere survival as the answer to life meaning? I don't want to come up with better ways to make people of any age group feel like they can meaningfully contribute to survival issues, and so foster a more organized and meritorious social system for them to live in. That would be better than the current situation, but still not good enough, still just a delay of existential angst until the later years. Is this all there is to human existence, merely to exist?
1 year ago
I think Penny Arcade summed it up perfectly:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/10/28
1 year ago
1 year ago
=) (Sorry, just had to throw that out there.)
1 year ago
1 year ago
I don't think it would be possible to rank myself popularity-wise, in high school. I paid attention to my own friends and my own projects and didn't notice what the other people were doing, I was too busy with my own stuff.
By the time you become an adult, most people have become less dependent on social approval and more willing to be who they really are. It sounds like kids are more insecure now than they were in the 70s. That's sad.
Just aim for self-love and the rest will take care of itself. You can't please everybody, so find the people you respect and enjoy and they will be easy to please!
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
P.S. Please excuse me for my bad use of grammar.
1 year ago
It is astonishing to realize how much you are right by comparing schools and prisons, especially by reading this sentence in your reply to the comments that followed your article: "At my school, it was easy not to learn anything, but hard to get out of the building without getting caught."
However, I disagree with what is according to you the cause -or at least one of the causes- of that situation; you said:
"I'm just guessing here, but I think it may be because American school systems are decentralized. They're controlled by the local school board, which consists of car dealers who were high school football players, instead of some national Ministry of Education run by PhDs."
French schools are not controlled locally but by the Ministére de l'Education Nationale (Ministry of National Education), and the problems are the same than in the US schools. At the time I was at school, we didn't have the same kind of categories you can find in the US schools (I'm speaking about "Freaks", "Nerds", "Popular ones", etc.), but the situation was precisely the same: being smart meant being bullied, and it's still the rule nowadays.
Besides, from what I've heard thanks to people who are working (not as teachers, but as wardens whose work force them to be closer from the children and the micro-societies they create than school teacher) in French schools presently, this trend has eventually gained these schools: pupils separate themselves in affiliated groups such as "the gothics", "the skaters" (skate-boarders), "the rappers", etc.
Notice that I've precised that these wardens, are *close* from the children's world, closer than teachers: that's the node of the problem; having a statist national ministry in charge of schools run by PhDs won't be a solution as they, as well as the teachers and local school directors, won't have a real idea of what's actually going on in schools, being too far of the everyday life of (bullied) children to see anything.
So the solution, IMO, is "simply" to change the whole school system. Easier to say than to do, obviously; anyway I think that a good thing to do so as to expose the problem would be to make a documentary showing the daily life of a nerd at school, which won't certainly done or at least not before a long period of time...
By the way, a couple of days ago, in a French school yet not known to be a "difficult" one (understand by the euphemism "difficult": "ruled by violence from local gangs"), a teenager has stabbed another teenager for, what was previously thought, apparently no reason.
But the reason has been discovered later: they had a quarrel about "which one would rule the school".
... Prisoners stabs each others so as to determine "who rules the prison" too... :]
FC
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
I was called a nerd twice, that i can remember. I really abhorred that idea. But i think people, over time, had a problem labeling me because my social network was vast and crossed a lot of boundaries. And the attempts at labeling me really ended when i started playing football and after i started driving to school. As I began to buy-in to "acceptable" modes of social participation, I became more palatable.
But things I chose to do in high school, were guided mostly by my own volition. I was really trying to be popular - at school anyway.
I didn't feel particularly popular at home. And I wonder if that is what made me prey for the other kids. Could they sense that I didn't feel that acceptable to my parents?
So I wonder what the quality of the relationships between the parents and the kids who consider themselves - and are social labeled- as popular.
I've spent almost as much time as adult as I did as a child.
I think popularity and conformity still plays a factor. People still admire people that have money, are good looking, socially adept, fame, and high positional authority. But I suppose its easier to surround yourself by many people who think as you do as an adult. So if you want to remain socially awkward and focus on being really smart then you can do so relatively comfortably as an adult rather the closed system of junior high and high school.
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
Dude, bad lag, the article already said that.
The only thing you added is an implication that not TRYING to be popular is a bad thing.
1 year ago
When I entered my highschool, in mountainous suburbia, life abruptly became hell. I knew absolutely nobody, not a soul. My hair, way of sitting (I still do that; I've realized with some pride that I sit like L from Death Note), my baggy and INCREDIBLY unfashionable clothes, and the fact that I knew the answers and didn't suppress them to look like a hot little idiot (the ideal girl at my school) were a source of vicious mockery.
Being a girl, I don't get beat up; however, my combined oddities seemed, by late September of the first semester of Freshman year, to have convinced most of the school that I was literally retarded. After all, how could a person not straighten their hair, dye it platinum blonde in streaks, wear skintight jeans and T-shirts or miniskirts... etc.
The problem is that my highschool is entirely composed of people who are at least in the middle-middle class; people who aren't can't afford to live around the school. Most people are rich or upper middle class. I am probably in the upper low or the lower middle; our house was cheap, and we don't spend money on the stupid yuppie things that everyone else does. These people have lived in this town all of their lives, in most cases, and believe, as you said, that this is actually Life. They believe that MTV is an accurate representation of what they should aspire to; the bar for appearance is set outrageously high, because my classmates can afford it.
Last year culminated in the mysterious leaking of the information that my role model happens to be Joseph Merrick, the Elephant Man. After a day of bullying, missed assignments, loneliness at lunch and generic mockery in the halls, at a time where I was in tech week for a musical, was too depressed to eat almost at all the whole week, and danced six hours a night in rehearsal -- I'd had enough. I was walking to the bus home, getting snowballs thrown at me, and trying to ignore someone who was just being stupid and annoying, about Naruto or some crappy show. Anthony, one of the biggest jerks in the school (and, predictably, a star on the football team) spotted me and began, loudly, to trumpet like an elephant.
It was about then I was going to just stand there and scream at the whole situation, when one of the special ed kids walked up and hugged me and said it was all right. Great kid, and for a while after that, I was almost happy when people whispered about my 'retardation'.
Thought I'd share that story -- Anyway; I love this article. A lot of the time, I get fed up with school in the extreme; I'm only in second semester of sophomore year, and things are unbearable again. My (violently bullied) friend from back downtown loves this article too; it helps make a little bit of sense of our stupid high school lives. When I feel like just quitting, I read this article, usually in conjunction with The True History of the Elephant Man.
1 year ago
Actually, I'm not even sure where I'm going with this... I thought it was an excellent essay that provided a lot of insight, good job and thanks.
1 year ago
Maybe the nerds have more in common with most popular kids than think. It seems to me you had enough time to draw a map and label people with your ranking. I doubt most people took the time in school to do this. So in your own way you contributed to social rankings; only I doubt you ever had the nerve to share your map with anyone outside of your ranking. Because you'd be stopped... most likely by one of the most popular kids. I mean this is the first I ever heard of someone drawing a map for this purpose… and I doubt you would have ever posted this map for others to see…. instead you gave it power by keeping it to yourself and only those you trusted could see it.
What is even more interesting to me is…. I wonder if this secretive world of your map drawing and the most popular kids scheming is really so different. You say a girl was afraid of being made fun of for being seen with a nerd because her friends would make fun of her. Well isn’t that telling in itself. It appears that the most popular kids would make fun of the middle classes for talking to nerds, instead of the most popular kids being mean to the nerds themselves. So the nerds went on thinking the most popular kids are the most popular because their not so bad, but the truth of it is just as the middle classes were unaware of cafeteria maps…. nerds were unaware of the real reason the middle classes were treating them so badly.
So wouldn’t it be interesting if the middle classes found out about the cafeteria map that categorized popularity then the middle classes may appear more justified in their cruelty towards nerds… and then if the nerds found out just who was making fun of the middle classes for talking to nerds-the most popular kids. Then what would be…. Probably both the middle classes and nerds would try to better themselves and not be so judgmental leaving the most popular kids to fend for themselves.
But before I jump down the throats of people who screwed me over….my question is… do we need to be divided to become united? And is that what the most popular kids are guilty of…. division? Lastly is it purely in their self-interest or without it is life more chaotic?
I always thought of the most popular kids as such a tightly knit group while everyone else was more scattered. But the reality is they've already turned on each other so since they are self proclaimed survivors they ensure that others do the same but all the while keeping things on an even keel.
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
Why?
Because we know the back stabbing, the rumours, the bitchy lies, and (the worst) wearing the wrong thing! Who the heck would want to try to be perfect ALL the time?
1 year ago
we are from Brazil (we will actually enter in high-school this year, but we don't think it may be very different), and here the life for nerds seems to be easier than in the United States... anyway, we have always been very criticized (sadly even by teachers) for our unusual habits. those teachers always said that we should "go out" more and "study less" (believe us, some teachers actually have said this to us in a serious way). many students have also made fun of us for the fact that we prefer to stay home and read about history and learn math than playing sports like most people in this age do.
we just like the way we are, it doesn't hurt us; studying (not just school-related material) is a good practice and it doesn't affect people around us in any negative way, so why do they complain? why do they think that we should go out and "have fun" (in their own opinion) just because other people do? can't studying be fun?
"fun" doesn't have an universal meaning; each one should be able to define fun as the things they like to do, so if we like to stay home and study, it's fun for us. fun doesn't always have to be "going out" and "socializing", and doing what the majority likes to do: not everyone has to like going out. someone has actually said us once: "you can't dislike going out, because NO ONE I know dislikes it.": this person certainly didn't understand that each person has a different taste.
we also thought that WE were the ones who had some kind of problem, but now we realize that they (those who judge us by our unusual taste) are the ones who are misunderstanding the whole thing.
we come from a "family of nerds", and we like being part of one, because our family supports us and understands us. some people think that nerd habits are undiscussably wrong, but they are being very small-minded.
we liked what you said about American high-schools having no purpose. we also think that many teachers preffer to give students long and pointless work with the only purpose being the grades: the point shouldn't be the grades, it should be the learning.
we also liked the comparison of the American high-school with a prison: we compare it with a jungle. one thing that we noticed here where we live is that, until 4th grade, the teachers always emphasized that they are like mothers. but, from 5th grade on, there started to be more than 1 teacher, and those many teachers for each class seemed not to care about the students' behaviour anymore, and that may be the point where their minds start to become completely twisted.
the word for "nerd" in Brazil is "CDF" (an acronym in Portuguese which means "iron head"), meaning someone who studies very much. but what we don't understand is that "CDF" is used as an offense, and most people don't like being called that way. but why? what do most people dislike so much about people that like studying? this is strange, and certainly has something to do with the failing educational system, which is very bad here in Brazil.
this is of course the situation in a whole different country, but it is very similar.
NOTE: feel free to correct our English, if necessary.
1 year ago
1 year ago
I do like everything stated about the school system though, I never thought about it that way - that school is just an institution for storing kids until they become of use. Although for the first half of my day I attend regular high school and am force-fed all the useless (for me at least) facts about history and rhetorical analysis, the second half of my day is spent at a magnet school full of specialized courses in math and science that are very useful, and the teachers genuinely care about turning us into the best scientists we can become. So I do agree that in general school is exactly as the author interpreted it, but the point of my whole response is that there are always exceptions.
(p.s. I don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet because I didn't read all the responses, but there is a grammatical error in this essay. 10 points to anybody that can find it.)
1 year ago
It ought to be "whom."
1 year ago
Great essay.
1 year ago
"But I'm not mean to popular people that don't cause problems,"
...instead of 'that' should use 'who' because you are speaking of people instead of inanimate objects...
"it works best to have no shame and no fear and find stuff that makes you admirably different, (like I'm a female science nerd that plays paintball with the guys,) and to find a bunch of happy friends to mock society with"
should be: "to find a bunch of happy friends with whom one can mock society" [best not to end a sentence with a preposition..]
1 year ago
1 year ago
1. The kids seem more connected to the adult world, to adults in general. Less suspicious of adults, more trusting of them; they seem to have more of a feeling of sharing the same world, and of thus being less like prisoners, and more like interns... people who are at a different stage of their experience, but in the same shared space as the adults.
2. The kids seem less polarized into popular and unpopular groups. I haven't seen kids who are typical "unpopular" kids here in Spain. I don't remember seeing any in Norway either. Yes, there are groups of kids, groups of friends, but I haven't seen the unpopular ones as clearly as I have seen them in Canada and the US. I think they exist here, but there seem to be fewer of them, proportionately. The structures of the social groupings the kids are in seem less rigid to me, here.
All of this begs the question of why it is different in North America. I don't know - but I would like to!
1 year ago
1 year ago
Do you really think so ?....
just read this
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
this is by the way from socrates c.470 BC - 399 BC
I like your text but some of you theories are way off ;).
I guess you are not an expert on many topics you write about ...thats somehow dangerous.But when you keep it simple with eating tables ranked A to F you are good.
"The cause of this problem is the same as the cause of so many present ills: specialization"
so why is that an ILL ? I am pretty sure no generation hat more whealts, health (lived longer) and more knowledge...So why is it ILL ?
1 year ago
1 year ago
To me (a nerd, and proud of it), there are two types of nerds. There are the kind who lack social intelligence, but they are generally happy where they are. And then there are the kind who are very socially aware. They have a tough time, because they don't fit in, don't really want to fit in, but don't want to be a loner. Anyway, there you go.
1 year ago
1 year ago
Focus on what's important, and try to never loose compassion for people, because we are all the same deep down. Hope this makes sense from a 101 year old all the way from Australia....
1 year ago